貝多芬在中國的命運 Jindong Cai on Beethoven in China
Jindong Cai, 59, is an orchestra conductor and a professor at Stanford University. He has conducted many orchestras in China and has been a guest conductor at numerous orchestras in the United States since moving there in 1985. With his wife, the writer Sheila Melvin, he has written numerous articles on China and two books on music in China: “Rhapsody in Red: How Western Classical Music Became Chinese” and their latest, “Beethoven in China: How the Great Composer Became an Icon in the People’s Republic.”
蔡金東是管弦樂團指揮，斯坦福大學教授。59歲的他曾在中國指揮過許多樂團，自1985移居美國以來，在美國許多樂團做過客座指揮。他的妻子是作家梅文詩(Sheila Melvin)，他和妻子寫了許多關於中國的文章，還寫過兩本關於中國音樂的書，一本是《紅色狂想曲：西方古典音樂在中國》(Rhapsody in Red: How Western Classical Music Became Chinese)，另一本是最新的《貝多芬在中國：這位偉大作曲家如何在人民共和國成爲偶像》(Beethoven in China: How the Great Composer Became an Icon in the People’s Republic)。
During a visit to his native Beijing, Mr. Cai discussed Beethoven, classical music and why China has so many new concert halls.
在訪問家鄉北京期間，蔡金東談論了貝多芬、古典音樂，以及中國爲什麼有這麼多新建的音樂廳。
Q. Chinese only began listening to and performing Western classical music in the 1920s. And yet Beethoven was popular even before he was heard. Why was that?
問：中國人在20世紀20年代纔開始欣賞和演奏西方古典音樂，然而貝多芬的名字在這之前就廣爲人知了。這是爲什麼呢？
A. Beethoven was introduced to China by a writer named Li Shutong, who wrote an essay about Beethoven in 1907 and even made a charcoal drawing of him. He admired Beethoven’s fighting spirit, and thought that this was what China needed.
答：貝多芬是由一位名叫李叔同的作家介紹到中國的，他在1907年寫過一篇關於貝多芬的文章，甚至還畫了一幅貝多芬的素描。他欽佩貝多芬的奮鬥精神，認爲這正是中國所需要的。
Q. Had Li ever heard Beethoven?
問：李叔同聽過貝多芬的作品嗎？
A. Probably not. He studied in Japan, but it’s not clear he even heard him there. It was Beethoven’s spirit and life story he admired.
答：可能沒有。他在日本學習過，但不清楚他在那兒有沒有聽過貝多芬的作品。他欽佩的是貝多芬的精神和生平。
Q. When was Beethoven first heard in China?
問：貝多芬的作品第一次在中國演奏是什麼時候？
A. Beethoven was first performed by the Shanghai Municipal Orchestra — now the Shanghai Symphony — in 1911. But that was an all-foreigner orchestra and Chinese were not allowed to attend its concerts until 1925. So the first time that Beethoven was played by and for Chinese was thanks to Xiao Youmei. He was a follower of Sun Yat-sen and later got a Ph.D in music at Leipzig University in Germany. He returned to China in about 1919 and the great educator Cai Yuanpei asked him to start an orchestra at Peking University. He created the Peking University Conservatory, and in 1922, the Peking University Orchestra performed the second movement of the Fifth Symphony and the first movement of the Sixth Symphony. They only had 15 musicians, but that can sound pretty good.
答：最早演奏貝多芬的是上海工部局樂隊(Shanghai Municipal Orchestra)，也就是現在的上海交響樂團，那是在1911年。不過那是個完全由外國人組成的樂團，1925年之前不允許中國人觀看他們的音樂會。所以貝多芬作品第一次面向中國人、由中國人演奏，要歸功於蕭友梅。蕭友梅是孫中山的追隨者，後來在德國萊比錫大學(Leipzig University)拿到了音樂博士學位。他大約在1919年回到中國，偉大的教育家蔡元培請他在北京大學組建一支管絃樂隊。他創辦了北京大學音樂傳習所(Peking University Conservatory)，1922年，北京大學管絃樂隊演奏了《第五交響曲》的第二樂章和《第六交響曲》的第一樂章。他們只有15個音樂家，但聽起來可能很不錯。
Q. And this is what you performed recently in Beijing? How was it?
問：您最近在北京的表演就是這樣的吧？演出怎麼樣？
A. Yes, we recreated this 1922 performance of Beethoven. We did it in the Stanford Center at Peking University, with 15 musicians from the Peking University Orchestra. It was something like time travel and it was very magical. We projected an image of the original orchestra — all its players were wearing changpao magua, traditional Chinese robes — and we performed in front of it. The orchestra was small, but it captured the same spirit as a big orchestra. And of course, when Beethoven was alive, the size of an orchestra was much smaller, maybe around 30 people.
答：是的，我們再現了1922年那場貝多芬作品的演出。我們和北京大學管絃樂隊的15名音樂家，在北大斯坦福中心進行了演出。有點兒像穿越時空，非常神奇。我們展示出原來樂隊的圖像——所有的演奏者都穿着中國傳統的長袍馬褂——然後我們在圖像前面表演。樂團人很少，但它體現了和大樂團一樣的精神。當然，貝多芬在世的時候，管絃樂隊的規模要小得多，可能有30人左右。
Q. And since then, Beethoven has become the symbol of classical music in China. You write about how when Kissinger visited in 1971, they had to bring musicians back from the countryside, where they had been exiled in the Cultural Revolution.
問：從那以後，貝多芬在中國已經成爲古典音樂的象徵。你寫過1971年基辛格(Kissinger)訪華時，他們不得不把文革時期下放到農村的音樂家召回的事情。
A. Yes, they had a debate over what symphony to play. The conductor, Li Delun, wanted the Fifth, but this was about “fate,” and in Communist China you couldn’t say that fate existed.
答：是的，他們當時爭論要演奏什麼交響曲。指揮家李德倫希望演奏《第五交響曲》，但這首交響曲是關於“命運”的，而在共產主義的中國，你不能說存在命運。
So then he suggested the Third, but that was the “Eroica,” which the leftists said was “about” Napoleon. [Beethoven had originally dedicated it to Napoleon, although he later retracted this when Napoleon declared himself emperor.] So they settled on the Sixth — the “Pastoral.” That was okay because it was about rural life. Kissinger said it was the worst Sixth he had ever heard.
於是他建議演奏《第三交響曲》，但那首是“英雄”(Eroica)，而左派說那是“關於”拿破崙(Napoleon)的。［貝多芬原本將這首交響曲獻給了拿破崙，不過後來當拿破崙自稱皇帝時，他收回了這個說法。］因此他們決定演奏《第六交響曲》——“田園”。這沒有問題，因爲它是關於農村生活的。基辛格說那是他有生以來聽到的最糟糕的第六交響曲。
Q. When did you first hear Beethoven?
問：你第一次聽貝多芬是什麼時候？
A. That was also in the Cultural Revolution. It was 1969 and a friend said, ‘Come to my home. I’ve got something.’ He had an old, hand-cranked record player, 78 r.p.m.s and you had to change the needle regularly. It was either the Fourth or the Fifth Symphony.
答：也是在文革時期。那是1969年，一個朋友說，‘來我家，我有好東西給你聽’。他有一臺老式的手搖唱機，每分鐘78轉而且還得定期更換針頭。那是第四或第五交響曲。
I didn’t know Beethoven then. I just saw the name. It was Victor label, Japanese. It was amazing. How come so many things were sounding at the same time? The complexity and power of the music really struck me, since I was used to Chinese music with a one-line melody.
那時我還不知道貝多芬，那是我第一次看到這個名字，是日本的“勝利”(Victor)廠牌出的。真是令人驚奇，如此多的樂器怎麼能在同一時間響起？那段音樂的複雜性和力量，確實打動了我，因爲我之前習慣的是單旋律的中國音樂。
Q. Why was Beethoven the focal point of so much struggle and diplomacy?
問：爲什麼貝多芬會成爲這麼多鬥爭和外交的焦點？
A. Chinese people believe that to succeed you have to chi ku [literally “eat bitterness,” meaning endure hardship]. He fit the bill. He struggled all the time and then he succeeded. This made him popular, as famous in China as Shakespeare in literature or Darwin in the sciences.
答：中國人認爲要想成功，就必須“吃苦”［字面義是“吃苦的東西”，意思是承受艱辛］。他剛好符合要求，他一直以來都在同命運鬥爭，最後他成功了。這讓他很受歡迎，在中國就如同文學方面的莎士比亞，或者科學方面的達爾文一樣著名。
Q. Mao didn’t ban Western classical music.
問：毛澤東並沒有禁止西方古典音樂。
A. In 1957, Mao invited musicians for a talk in Zhongnanhai [the leadership compound in Beijing]. He said, we need foreign things, but they should serve China.
答：1957年，毛澤東邀請音樂家到中南海［國家領導人在北京的居住區］座談。他說，我們需要外國的東西，但應該服務於中國。
This goes back to his 1942 talk on arts in Yan’an. Art had to serve politics. Obviously, it has created many problems, but one positive effect is that Chinese artists want their music to be understood by people.
這種觀點可以追溯到1942年，他在延安文藝座談會上的講話，藝術必須爲政治服務。很明顯，這產生了許多的問題，但其中的一個積極影響是，中國藝術家希望他們的音樂能被人們所理解。
Q. And you see a flourishing musical scene here.
問：於是你在這裏看到音樂界蓬勃發展。
A. China probably has the most composers in the world who make a living by composing. In America it’s not possible. Almost no one does that. You have to teach or do something else.
答：中國通過作曲來維生的作曲家可能是世界上最多的。在美國，這是不可能的。幾乎沒有人做得到，你要教學或做其他事。
In China, there are many new concert halls, and that has created new orchestras and they want to stage premieres. So there’s a huge demand for new music. It might just be folk music or arrangements of it, or a piece for political purposes or for tourism. Every city wants a symphony or an opera that spotlights its history or famous sites, for tourism purposes. It’s all mixed up together.
在中國有很多新的音樂廳，這導致了新樂團的組建，而他們期待進行舞臺首演。因此，新的音樂作品有巨大的市場需求。它可能只是民間音樂，或對民間音樂的改編，或是用於政治或旅遊目的的音樂作品。出於促進旅遊的目的，每個城市都想要編排交響樂或歌劇，彰顯它的歷史和名勝。這一切都混雜在一起。
Q. What about the quality of these new pieces?
問：那麼這些新作品的質量如何？
A. The quality is a big issue. It’s state-driven. They get commissions from the government. Composers say: “I can get 200,000 renminbi for a new piece. Do you think I can refuse it?” But they think that they can do that and do their serious music on the side. And some do succeed at this.
答：質量是個大問題。這是國家推動的，他們從政府那裏接任務。作曲家會想，“一部新作品我可以得到20萬元人民幣。你覺得我能拒絕嗎？”但他們認爲他們可以一邊做這些，一邊業餘做他們的嚴肅音樂。而一些人確實成功做到了這一點。
Q. You just came from Zhengzhou, the capital of Henan Province. Tell us about that.
問：你剛剛從鄭州回來，給我們講講這次行程吧。
A. They just built a new concert hall and have a symphony orchestra. To me, this is phenomenal. Zhengzhou is a real second-tier city, but now it’s got this wonderful hall.
答：他們剛剛建造了一個新的音樂廳並組建了一個交響樂團。對我來說，這是很驚人的。鄭州是一個真正的二線城市，但現在它有了一個非常棒的音樂廳。
But, of course, the buildings are easy. The leaders can point to them as accomplishments. The human side is harder.
但是當然，建造音樂廳很容易。領導人可以將它們視爲政績，而人的因素就困難多了。
Q. What’s the challenge?
問：挑戰是什麼？
A. It’s education. To play a piece well, you have to look at the notation and think about the music. The orchestras, the young people — they can do that. They can play anything technically, but it’s often just notes.
答：教育。要想把一部作品演奏好，一定要看着樂譜，並仔細地思考音樂。那些樂團，那些年輕人——他們能做到這一點。從技術上講，他們可以演奏任何樂曲，但往往只是把樂譜彈奏出來。
You also have to know how to present the piece and you need an idea of the meaning. You need a theory to support your interpretation, and then you can convince people that it should be played in this fashion. Then the orchestra can be united by one idea.
你還必須懂得如何呈現作品，需要了解作品的意義。你需要一套理論來支撐你的理解，然後你才能讓人們信服，應該以這種方式來演奏。然後樂團才能通過同一種理解，凝聚成一個整體。
If the conductor doesn’t have an idea, then they just play what they want. Much of this is related to conductor, but also to basic education in conservatory. We don’t teach enough style or enough history.
如果指揮沒有一種理解，那他們就只會隨心所願地演奏了。這其中很大一部分和指揮有關，但也和音樂學校的基礎教育有關。我們傳授的風格和歷史不夠。
Q. Can this be improved?
問：這個方面能改善嗎？
A. Yes, it is getting much better. China has some very strong orchestras in its major cities and is building new conservatories at an amazing rate. There’s a new conservatory in Hangzhou that is supposed to have 5,000 students in 10 years. Five thousand! And Harbin is creating one. You look at the buildings. The Harbin one is amazing. It’s like the Pentagon. An incredible building, an incredible facility.
答：能，現在好多了。中國的大城市有一些非常有實力的樂團，中國也在以驚人的速度新建音樂學院。杭州就新建了一所音樂學院，10年後能培養出5000名學生。5000名吶！哈爾濱也正在建一所學校。看看那些學校的建築。哈爾濱那棟樓令人驚歎，像五角大樓。建築設施都特別棒。
Q. And it all started with Beethoven.
問：所有這一切都是從貝多芬開始的。
A. Yes.
答：是的。
